As 13,000 unique visitor mark is passed the District Court Hearing approaches.

One common characteristic is those that were once the most vocal want to avoid Court. I can concede that might be for a number of reasons but I think purely it is because they simply don't have the courage. It's one thing to lie for years about a case and cackle and giggle as people with nothing to do with the case have their privacy invaded and strangers talking about them and threatening them on line. I suppose it's the safety in numbers situation, the ability to be all powerful from behind a computer screen and the reluctance to appear in the cold light of day to reveal a persona something less than powerful or even lucid.

How terrific they must have felt when one of their associates threatened my family with a visit from the Mongrel Mob, using in true hollywood fashion the line 'this is a promise not a threat.' How confident they must have been that such threats finally proved they were not persecutors but rather a voice that transcended what other might consider normal and made threats, and hate messages 'freedom of speech.'

The case remains quite clear in that harassment did take place, and that the respondents were a party to it. The only issue is whether or not the harassment took place as a group effort or as an individual effort, to prove the former I have information from the damned ones own sites, conversations of the respondents that shows a campaign not only against those that objected to them lying and stalking but their families and friends as well. Maybe, that is the reason for their reluctance now the sheer bitterness and hate of their actions recoils even themselves from self-respect and they don't want to face it.

It is with some irony that the frenetic 3 now drape their activities as 'public debate' totally overlooking the fact that I was not debating with them and my family certainly were not. One goes even so far to say that his was 'free speech' a situation by which in his disordered mind one can lie their heads off to harm others and call it freedom of speech. I need these individuals assembled to be cross-examined, and will appeal any moves for them to avoid it not missing the irony that these were once 'men' in full flight with fury against whomever they saw in their way and who now which to be silent and be sympathised with.

Oh look, the fiddler bros are making a pack attack..

sophier8 wrote:

So give us a reason to believe what you are saying IE give us some evidence that links Robin to the murders on Every street, this is essential stuff if poor poor David is ever going to get that big pay day.


Cyber can only give reasons for 'what if that happenend or maybe this happened' senerio's. One never sticks to the facts.
Fact is there is no direct evidence linking Robin to murdering his family.

Quoteloadmaster2 (80 ) 6:01 pm, Wed 6 Apr #32016
What can you expect from someone who doesn't understand the meaning of "free as a bird"?

Quotejmhb51 (1 ) 6:21 pm, Wed 6 Apr #32017

They don't say anything just challenge on negatives that don't exist. The fiddler bros think that everyone is stupid and that the world doesn't know that David was found not guilty and that their fiddler bro was. Bad luck. The newest arsewipe quotes 'what if that happened or maybe that happened' of cybernana when she said no such thing. She simply said that rotten fiddler daddy left part of his brains in the rifle and killed himself with an upward trajectory shot, no 'ifs of buts' about that craploader Andy come lately.

Bryan Bruce is a good representative of the

hang bainers. He's right on tune in missing out on the facts.
That's an uncanny ability to have when you're a tv investigator with appropriate music, shadows and an agenda.
There must have been something he got right though, surely?

Oh well, fair enough, poor sisters.

The beat goes on....

TM Boards Admin.

Here is another example of a recycled poster using the small hours to launch an attack of defamatory harassment against Joe Karam and David Bain in order to maximise the amount of time the offending piece will remain on the boards.

I further note that the poster Stockdale continues to lie about the Bain case in order to mislead the public, justify his hate campaign and mitigate the circumstances of his long time, stalking and harassment on the boards aided and abetted by TM.

The question of why TM aid and abet the stalking and harassment of their own members and members of the public by members of 'public' hate sites who have long since shut themselves down from public scrutiny and instead use TM as a venue for their hate and vitriol remains relevant.

I wonder what TM's position is in on the fact that TM now publishes that Joe Karam should be in prison. This debacle has gone too far.

In response to your latest letter to me in which you noted I had not sent the url regarding a specific complaint, I remind you that neither I or any member of the public are obliged to provide details of harassment, defamation, or breach of Court Orders on TM boards. TM are wholly responsible for monitoring their own boards and if unable to (which is highly obvious) should simply shut down until that ability (moderation of published material) can be achieved.

As always, nothing personal. All the best.


http://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/MessageBoard/Messages.aspx?id=343730&p=630&topic=7
Quite simple, davey boy admits his guilt, does another few years, Karam gets a couple for misleading the public and privy and then maybe we consider the thing closed.
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green_nz (0 ) 12:22 am, Fri 11 Feb #31478

A new kiddie fiddler lover re-emerges...

Seems the hate-siters are preparing to change the guard.

cybernana- Carl Lloyd - was shown to be extremely ignorant for an "expert" witness - he's a pathetic joke - he categorically stated - it could not be blood - yet the crown expert - did exactly that - put blood on a gun - touch it - photographed it - exactly same well - guest what? it showed white - noticed how quick the idiot raced back to england ? - his statement was shown to be 100% false - he didn't even recreate the same test - he's a joke - like the dentist the defense dragged up.
You can repeat proven bs - I think you know his evidence was crap as well - considering your intimate knowledge of the case.
stating known falsehoods is deceitful- shame on you
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graemehw (85 ) 7:30 pm, Tue 1 Feb #15658

Not only did the bsing Jones lie about the colour of blood under poli-light, he claimed that finger print definition enhanced and sharpened under pressure. Stick you nose against a supermarket window gramehw and see if it sharpens or flattens you idiot. But don't get excited just yet, there's plenty of excitement in the wind. Even old nina-concertina crawled out of the woodwork today, how convenient when her name is mentioned everywhere in the cached material. But you are probably right, some mouths from the south are about to fall deeply silent and more idiots are for the call up. Good luck arsewipe. Shame on you fiddler supporter.

Trade Me simplicity....

If the country wants a change in Police culture, I suggest it looks much closer at the problem. Lopping off a few boils won't clear up the disease, nor will any dose of castor oil. The Police culture we all blame for the excessive use of power has it's roots much deeper and more widely spread throughout our community than anyone has pointed out todate. It is in all of us. We expect the cops to do the filthiest work, but we abuse them and threaten them as they do it, and afterwards when they present their findings in court. We pay them peanuts to risk their lives, their marriages, their psyches, we let the media hang them out to dry so we can watch them cry real tears and if they don't we name them incompetent country cops and revile them. We let our children race them on our streets, and screech when someone dies. We challenge them, make 'beating' them a national sport, but still we call for them when we need some big strong braveheart to come save us from our neighbours.
It isn't the Police culture we should be worried about. It's our own.
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oh_hunnihunni (1188 ) 10:32 am, Wed 19 Jan #7



Here we have the ultimate excuse for why we have a Police culture under siege, it's the fault of the people in general. How pathetic and simplistic to propose that the country should accept an endemic culture of 'looking out for one's own kind' in the Police because of general proposals about the unpleasant jobs they are tasked with doing and our reliance upon them. The Police are not forced to join, they are not gang pressed into the force, they apply and if accepted make an oath after training. One cannot for a second anticipate that the new entrants have any misgivings about some of the worst aspects of their job, or that they have been lulled or conned into some false expectation of what the job will be.

So why then does the writer above suggest it's isn't the Police Culture that the public should worry about but rather the public should worry about their own. Is this dimwit suggesting that to obtain first class and community conscious Policing the community must lift it standards. Or that good policing is a reward only for communities that lift the standard of their culture to some unidentified level, in order that the Police will then deign to rid themselves of a culture that has been identified within the Police itself and marked to be removed? Are we about to enter an age when only those that have 'changed' their culture and have proof of such will be able to rely on help from the Police as this idiot seems to suggest. Are we to recognise that bad Policing is the result of being a 'bad' community?

The attitude of the writer above is an effort to put NZ into third world status where only the rich or 'good' will be provided for by the Police who in fact will inherit a paternalistic role over the good and bad they 'see' in society. Excuse me lunkhead that is exactly the problem and to endorse it is to victimise the public and disassemble law and order and the fundamental rights of democracy and freedom. It makes me wonder how far we have really come when some idiot message boarder quotes a few random examples of the accepted role of the Police before turning that to say we have what we deserve, or we get what we deserve - I'd like to see the legislation that says that.

Broad and Pope were given (probably the result of a serious misjudgement at the time) the opportunity to stop the back slapping of their mates into promotion, or reward for errors, promoting the wrong people for the wrong reasons and they blew it. In my opinion the project was never going to work, first of all because it was always going to be questioned how someone that formed part of the problem was going to be capable of fixing it. Already shown as to having never been willing to do anything about the culture during long Police careers. And secondly it seems ultimately stupid to presume they had the skills or capacity to implement something so far out of their career experience and with them known to already being in an environment where they'd overlooked or promoted the things they would be tasked with changing. Come to think of it, that decision was just about as dumb as blaming the public as the writer does above.

But of course all is not lost, wise heads are at work and the push for culture change in the Police has lopped off the heads of those representative of the culture that has been identified as in need of change, I hope the lessons now learnt at the top filter their way down and union resistance or 'old school' resistance is kicked to the kerb, more women are involved and promoted, promotions are on merit, difficult Police not 'promoted' to desk jobs in Wellington to get them away from areas where their poor performance has made the jobs of others more difficult. Also not least to forget that the rank and file of the Police are supported, able to speak out, complain when necessary, don't feel pressured not to report misconduct - in fact do as a normal part of business, no cover ups for anything and a removal of the 'elitism' aspect identified in the most recent report of the rank and file seeing the admin as out of touch.

What was Judith Collins saying when she said

to allow Rob Pope to reapply for his job would show her as a 'corrupt' Minister. Was it because of his, apparently best held intentions, to capture his best retirement fund options by going in 2012 or was it because of behaviour that the Minister saw as corrupt. She owes it to the public and Rob Pope to spell that out.

I personally suspect that the Minister is well aware of a pervasive and corrupt culture older than the NZ Police that has won influence for its own ends - the bros and secret hand shakers, if it is not that then Minister should put the country right on the issue. For all intents and purposes it looks like the bros are out in the cold having finally been partially exposed.

I'd also like to know from the Minister how objectively it could fall upon serving police officers with a total background in the Police Culture to somehow be equipped to remove that culture. What bloody nonsense, and what bloody nonsense for the non bros and the non corrupt to be responsible to remedy the behaviour of those higher in the tree above them. Get it right Judith the men and women of the Police didn't join to become responsible for what successive Governments have allowed and seemingly promoted. Good on you if you've worked out the core base of the corruption and are taking a scythe to it and I'm sure you don't forget those at the forefront of fighting crime and building a more inclusive and fair society - give them proper recognition and support.