So if a message board owner operates a site

which publishes defamatory material over a long period of time about a certain individual or individuals, having been told to cease and desist, and having been told (thanks Linz4me) that a particular group are using the publication opportunity to breach the law, stalk other board users and their families, with the intended purpose of defamatory harassment, likely to incite hatred and most probably violence - do the board owners (and their attendant defamatory users) rate higher on the damages scale if successfully sued? The answer has to be yes.

I've already seen from TM some head in the sand stuff about responsibility, ducking and diving, a keen propensity to lay blame elsewhere (anywhere in fact it seems, such is the level of self-preservation.) Added to the mix are self-defeating arguments that TM, as an example, are not a publisher, although they employ 'moderaters' - a modern term for editors, who pass judgement on editorial comment of a number of types, including (yes) defamation.

I've got an idea for TM, if they don't want to be seen as publishers and editors, then don't have moderators and don't have rules about what may or may not be posted - don't sit in the middle, a bob each way, and expect anything other than scrutiny of what they actually are - an Internet publisher. Oh goodness how sad for TM. They only made a profit of 93 million in 2009 and yet they don't have the 'resources' to pre-edit anything published on their boards.

I'll believe that just like I believe in squadrons of under resourced pigs flying over. But then the mixture becomes more obscure because their site of publication is called 'Community' like a message board in a supermarket or letters to the editor in a rural newspaper. They want to be members of a big happy family and ignore that some of the 'kids' are out stalking, threatening people and their families and posting defamatory comment and suppressed material - how simply cutey pie, all sort of homely. And big daddy will say 'I had no idea it was going on.' How very sweet, poor big daddy, so busy rolling the dollars in they he didn't know the 'kids' were playing up, stalking a Jury and witnesses or he would have done something except it wouldn't be his job because he's busy doing something.

The thing about corporates, Governments, even dictatorships, is that they have a natural life and at some point the boss gets pushed, because it's easier that way, because the boss wasn't doing his job, hadn't kept abreast with Internet law for example, the role of publisher etc (or he/she had extended things to a sound position, and yes it was/is time for someone else to 'take over') and the company or the country need a new direction and fresh ideas and everything is jolly jolly. It's all such fun I might eat an apple.

Bryan Bruce round 3 - earth to idiots.

Here's another one, shocked as well... I am shocked and astounded that the BSA actually awarded Young a payout. To say that he was not given enough time to reply is ludicrous. I watched that doco and Bryan Bruce was very clear about who he was, and the purpose for his call. Mr Young simply dragged ass, then was obviously embarrassed when the program actually aired and due to prevailing political correctness has managed to successfully (well partially anyway) play the victim. Crikey, if that arguement had any genuine merit we could all claim that when something doesn't go our way eg " Aw gee the landlord wanted his rent, but I didn't pay it cos he didn't give me enough time to respond to his request." Or how's this one for size. " Aw didums I got a phone call from my bank. They told me who they were and that I was overdrawn. I'm suing them though, because they didn't give me the chance to argue back."

(Better not say too much more. I see some commentators have been excluded by the moderators) Quote moviebuff1 (229 ) 11:36 pm, Tue 29 Mar #93

Another space cadet who thinks it's perfectly proper for citizens to have their privacy invaded by 'journalists' and that such citizens are obliged to co-operate with a one sided TV show that has a pre-determined agenda, not only having a pre-determined agenda but one at pains to avoid critical forensic evidence against a dead daddy that had a fiddling bent. ''Aw didums I got a phone call from my bank. They told me I was overdrawn," and so the idiot writes, apparently unaware that Mr Young wasn't overdrawn at the bank or in any other way, rather being a person discharging his civic duty in accordance with the law and under no obligation to a tv reporter seeking out sensationalism from the privacy of a citizens life.

This idiot moviebuff (probably better called moviegiantbutt) sees some ownership of others that doesn't exist, sees some power of the media over that of the Courts and due process, and was no doubt one of the sick hangbainers that crowed that Mr Young was a perjurer - well, she can suck it up along with Bryan Bruce and other miserable hangbainers, maybe they could take in a movie together, something intellectually challenging like The Muppets.

Bryan Bruce round 2

Having had a broadcasting complaint upheld against him, Bryan Bruce is reported to be keen to make another 'documentary,' I guess he needs the work. He comes across confident in his ability to do better than last time without realising (or admitting) that he didn't touch upon key evidence against Robin Bain, a number of items for example, the upward trajectory shot and no shielding of the blood spatter that showed no one else was present - bit hard to be a murder Bryan when old daddy was there by himself.

Also the blood and brain matter found deep inside the barrel, old Bryan apparently didn't want to talk about this because he didn't have the necessary shadowing and appropriate music, so it remains a problem for Bryan how to explain such strong forensic proof against old daddy, particularly if Bryan wanted to switch back (why not - all the other hangbainers have tried it) to a close contact shot - because a close contact shot would have meant the spatter was shielded by the gunman, but Bryan knows there was no gunman there, and no appropriate music or shadow - so he just left it out and chased a photo-copier salesman instead. Bryan didn't want to talk about that spatter on Robin's shoes occluded as being from his own wound (that proved it Bryan, that it was daddy what done it - so you left that out as well.)

Also I can understand why Bryan left the strip search of David out because it showed that David was a suspect from the outset but more importantly that he didn't have any scratches on his chest. Well, I've got an idea for ya Bryan, how about a show called 'The Bain Murders - what I left out.' I'd watch that.

For those that wondered what happened to Te Aroha...

with my comments inter spaced....

"just to get some balance to the insane ramblings of the JRBG membership who claim their was no evidence to support davids innocence"

Apparently it is a cyber crime to dispute the hate-signs swan song that 'there was no evidence to support David's innocence.' I guess we can assume that soon people will be banned for even saying that he is innocent, which if you follow the logic could result in the Jury being arrested and imprisoned.

"sophie not telling all the truth as per usual While some trace elements were found on BOTH the petitioner’s and Robin’s hands, no particles that conclusively indicated the presence of FDR were found in either instance.. AND IN THE EXPERTS OPINION PROBABLY CROSS CONTAMINATION"

Another interesting one, 'sophie' is actually a banned hate-site member Bill Rodie posting using a family members account, which was previously banned as well. Not a good look TM, adds to the evidence that TM's may have deliberately supported the campaign against David Bain, Joe Karam and the Jury.

"repetition of the so called "indisptable evidence" by two of you just contines to show how weak minded you truely are.. we debated the evidence for 18 months or so on here..where were you then.. the jury deliberated and "unanimously" voted not guilty on all counts.. all 12 agreed not just the two you continually bring up to try and distort truth.. i hope weirs book does eventuate on may 7..be fun tearing it to pieces.. how he thinks he can improve his credibility after wisharts portrayal of him is beyond belief..a lying manipulative sexual deviant copper.."

Of course anybody following the rantings of the hate-sites will have noted their use of false or distorted facts in a fashion I have described as 'by mantra' where something is repeated endlessly in order to give it credibility, this was a line followed by Stockdale and Rodie in particular, in those times Rodie called himself rather charmingly 'kirkmaiden' - something of a display of his cross-dressing style of existence, no wonder he/she went down a treat among the devos.

"of course not blind to anything but your unjustified hatred"

Clearly it is unreasonable in the minds of TM moderators to criticise hate-siters for their apparent hate.

"repetition is sign of a weak mind"

See 'by mantra' above, and consider why TM allow it. All questions I assume which will be of interest to Mr Karam's lawyers, the repetition of lies encouraging the lowering of public opinion against the target - and freely encouraged by TM.

"a bit like their new witnesses like magic appearing all these years later as if they have any relavence or credibility liars defending liars"

Who can be criticised for suspicion of magic witnesses who arrive late in the piece to attempt to 'rescue' a frail Crown case? It's a matter of public interest and concern.

"a failure to attend court is contempt of court and should be dealt with an arrest warrent the next time their will be no rock to hide under then"

When this comment, clearly not directed at anybody by name anyway, can be deemed to offensive assumes that somehow a reasonable person reading the boards would have been able to 'recognise' who it might have been directed toward, or that persons not duly attending Court as required are not in Contempt.

"Because you have failed to adhere to our Message Board rules after many warnings and a suspension your Message Board privileges have been permanently removed.

Regards,PJ"

Despite the clear unfairness of PJ's moderation in respect of Te Aroha, the benefit emerges that on the day of Te Aroha's banning there was a deliberate exercise run on TM's boards. TM essentially hosted a hate-site blitzkrieg, as they have done for many years. Some of the old favourite's betrayed that they were complainers on the boards themselves (such was their apparent satisfaction) and the text above helps show others. All of this of course is saved and may yet play a role in the defamation proceedings or other proceedings - and will certainly need to be considered at any point when damages are assessed.

I am also aware of some deleted posts and the reasons given as to why the were deleted. I am aware of objectionable, defamatory, harassing material posted during the above attack which TM have refused to do anything about.

There is often much between the lines that needs to be read, however in the events leading to the attack and harassment of Karam, Bain, Reed, the Jury and others on TM, the stalking and menacing of hate-site opponents, what can be read between the lines is plainly obvious - that both, by either act, or omission Trade Me NZ Ltd have played a pivotal and destructive role in the abuse of cyber media, cyber publishing and attacks on the credibility of Court Orders, Suppression Orders, the rule of law, age old tenets of innocent until proven guilty, in an effort that has resulted in bringing concepts of Law, Justice and Truth back to the dark ages where lynch mobs roamed.

I would imagine that that was hollow eagerly awaited victory lol.
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goldnkiwi (611 ) 4:32 pm, Thu 24 Mar #31900

please learn to control yourself.
you'll find the cleaning products in the cupboard
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obook (174 ) 8:25 pm, Thu 24 Mar #31901

Finally, Rodney Osook has been able to offer some credible advice.
Romance could bloom, Rachael and Tony could share a donkey on the boulevard, or even just a recording of mating noises. What bliss for the afflicted. How enchanting that they could partake a beastly appetite, lol head and the Rodney worshipper sipping coffee as the reality of their several defeats marches by dressed in mayoral chains, pen poised to offer fresh words for the word thief and their mischief hope upon the children they'll never touch.

Coates creeps out.....

Is that a "sorry" I hear
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kulkkulbelle (356 ) 2:09 pm, Thu 24 Mar #31899

No it isn't sorry you hear, if you're quiet and your thoughts stop bouncing about inside the emptiness of your head it's 'where is the pathologist's report that only you in the whole world saw?' You know the one that you lied about in order to persecute somebody and win favour with your hate-site friends, and the bros of course, yes, the bros of course.

The sheer blindness of a hate-siter....

Even after a finding to the contrary this spinner still finds everything all hunky dory....

I still think it was a fairly well balanced documentary and not sprinkled with sequins and dollied up to make everyone think one of the victims did the deed.
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phae (35 ) 11:13 am, Thu 24 Mar #13

No mention of course that she was part of a group that called the witness a perjurer, no apology for that.

Interesting to note the documentary and the 'potential' perjury charges were in reality the last foothold for the doomed, now that has gone as well leaving only history to recognise Robin Bain as killer of his own family as confirmed in a Court of Law in June 2009. Likewise seeing the leaving of idiots like the poster phae in the muck and filth of their own hate. Chin up phae, on second thoughts leave it down your yellow teeth and drooling crap are an unpleasant sight.

For those interested, one of three is making

futile efforts to hide. The once brave, now suddenly want to hide. I can't blame them for not wanting to face up to their stalking, but face up they'll have to.

Even Bryan Bruce would admit today that he

was wrong and Joe Karam was right. But the more interesting aspect is that without a single pause for thought the hate-siters grabbed the opportunity to use against David Bain. That's the kind of people they are folks, they don't look for the truth they look for what protects the old man with the dirty habits and nothing else, and they don't care who they hurt. A great example of hate-siters at work, accusing a man of perjury on the basis of a few seconds of 'surprise' attack Television.

Makes Trade Me's position in the defamation of David and Joe, and the stalking it has allowed on it's boards to look perilous in the current proceedings because they simply can't say they didn't know - because they were written to and told, didn't bother to investigate and let the same continue - that's unlawful and damaging.

Who are you threatening Ralph Taylor fiddler?

Is it second strike any your out (permanent ) on the TM message boards re Te's banning?Must be getting al ittle lonely out their project and cyber?
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jeeves-50 (3 ) 9:26 pm, Wed 23 Mar #31885



You are part of a pack of kiddie fiddlers, no one is scared of kiddie fiddlers - which you should by now realise. Stop threatening people you arse-wipe Ralph Taylor. If you want to threaten people threaten me you piece of chicken shit.

Bryan Bruce is a good representative of the

hang bainers. He's right on tune in missing out on the facts.
That's an uncanny ability to have when you're a tv investigator with appropriate music, shadows and an agenda.
There must have been something he got right though, surely?

Oh well, fair enough, poor sisters.

Bill Rodie is out and about again,

kirkmaiden with his cross-over problems, pretending to be one of his own children - old Bill, the beekeeper William Rodie, telling bro lies for free.

Aah, fat Rodney osook....

a plagiarist from the west.
Sensitive to the subject of fiddlers,
or the sale of broken used appliances.
Tony sook, stealing words from here,
and there, to use for his own.
To hide his way, of fiddling about.

Look, bro Vic P - crawling out from a suspicous

looking dark spot. And this is what he's got to say.

Facts. Proven facts. No "what ifs" ,no " if this had been done" .Just facts
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vic53 (0 ) 8:16 pm, Wed 23 Mar #31872

Congratulations Vic, you're punctuation is improving every decade. I'd like to know how the defamation proceedings are coming on? On top of things? Everything cheery cheery, sweetie pie?

But once weren't you such a picture, going to harass people for the rest of their lives. You must have felt so strong Vic, blasting out all that bullcrap in one sentence - it must have been like that time you managed to ask Mrs Dorington if you could go to the toilet only 5 minutes after you already had. I can still remember the smells and Justin reckons there's piddle stains on the floor in the corner where you use to sit looking at the wall with that hat on.

Rachael newberry, dickleberryhead - a law graduate

asks where is the evidence?

possible, maybe, similar, hearsay, allegations, no conclusive evidence, no cat or dog prints, suggestions, not confirmed,.............etc where is the proof, all just playing with words, everything having a proviso. Where is the evidence? Perhaps it was in the 'suppressed report', perhaps these grey areas could have been put to rest once and for all if its' findings had been put before the jury. Perhaps that would have been 'conclusive'.
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goldnkiwi (611 ) 6:30 pm, Wed 23 Mar #31871

Well dear dickleberry you must have been asleep when you went to law school, or maybe day-dreaming about, well .... donkeys. If you'd been awake, or not playing with yourself in the back row and making lots of eehaw noises you might have heard that 'where is the evidence' is the onus placed on the Crown to prove the charge. I know that's a lot to absorb in one go, and I don't want to put pressure on your asinine, mouse-sized brain, in a donkey head, but that is what the Jury asked the Crown, and concluded to respond 'not guilty' five times over. Just imagination yourself five times over, if there is a paddock big enough, and you would realise you'd be sated with the truth, as the Jury were that the answer to the question to the Crown of 'where is the evidence' was responded to with no meaningful weight.

Oh look....

Rachael Dickleberry is so happy. She must have another donkey in her life and be giving up dead donkeys in the meantime (oh, the loss of poetry in the world,) how very fulfilling for her, but watch out because Deb Kookybelle is sniffing about and you don't want to come second in the mayoral donkey contest , for a fifth time, otherwise people might think you're a Mayoral Donkey Dickleberry also ran, Rach.

What did he say? Perhaps nana would like to repeat it, them being so in synch
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goldnkiwi (611 ) 5:47 pm, Wed 23 Mar #31865

Some of the sweet sister blokes are already

showing a decided lack of fortitude. I wonder if it could be the light, or perhaps realising that no matter how perfect you imagine yourself to be, and how it is 'appropriate' to twist the truth to enable persecution that, after all, a crook is a crook, is a crook.

Wouldn't cross-examination be fun? Say for example if the hate-sites were held to be criminal organisations with the intention (because of their all-seeing righteousness) to pervert the Course of Justice. It might well be, and appears to be so, that when a bunch of nutters, start on a crusade, truth goes first, then adherence to the law, the law itself until they (the nutters) are simply a gang, witch hunters, a noose mob, 'entitled' to law break, search into the lives of individuals and break the law at whim.

Ironically, there are those among their number, who have already supplied evidence unwittingly of all the above activities, but what if there were cross-examination, prosecutions, computers and communications seized for analysis. That could be a lot of fun, but don't believe me. Some of them may even reveal participation in common organisations, or attendance to the view that children are chattels of some type. Somehow, I think fortitude begins to fade - bravado slinks away, the safety of numbers is no longer a strength - but I'm probably wrong and the hate-sites have simply shut up shop for a long public holiday or similar.

More defamation from the motormouth rodney osook...

oh, really? so no particular reason for maintaining your presence here? just stuck for something better to do? my sources tell me there is a compensation case coming, one that caused a degree of disagreement between a certain unsuccessful 'writer'; one notable for his many uncorrected errors of fact, and the Minister of Justice. I'm sure it will all play out in the fullness of time.
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obook (174 ) 9:02 pm, Tue 22 Mar #31826

Your sources, the fiddler's club?
The Minister of Justice as well, helping out?
I don't think Power supports fiddlers, why would he?
Don't be sad Rodney, that you got caught out time, and time, again.

Just off Trade Me, from the angry fiddler - more defamation.

you really are investing a lot in this character assassination campaign, aren't you? is there something about the actual case you are anxious about?
There is a benighted author who has made a career out of fiction while trying to write facts. His latest novel hasn't made it to press yet, although it was expected many moons ago.
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obook (174 ) 8:06 pm, Tue 22 Mar #31820

Keep it coming fat-gutted one, much appreciated. Thanks for your help.

Yes fat tony osook,

yes, still information not yet in the public domain, so the fat lady is biding her time. from reading posts of the last few days it seems that some are singing prematurely
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obook (174 ) 7:58 pm, Tue 22 Mar #31817

The fiddler's crew are all at sea with you at the helm, or did you disappear down the plug hole in panic once again? Could there be a plug hole big enough for a fat slug fiddler to slither off hand in hand with Rodney?

It's probably happened somewhere else in the world before,

maybe even in NZ. Perhaps somebody knows, but one of the three are using the Court Process to continue the harassment and stalking. It's the old 'prove you're not a stalker by stalking.'
Interestingly, it may be the precursor of a heap of information coming to light, the Trojan Horse into the heart of the hate-siter's stalking and threatening. It seems there is no steady hand at the tiller, panic reigns.

I wonder whe 3 righteous men wouldn't

front up to Court to prove they weren't liars and stalkers? Hmmh, I wonder why one of them would be so stupid to provide evidence of his continued stalking?
Maybe networking in hate isn't the same as coming out in the cold light of day to be counted when it matters. Maybe it's just pure cowardice.
Maybe it's hard to face the truth that you are nothing more than a liar and a stalker whose only ambition in life is to persecute others and twist the law to protect sickos.

Who would you believe, a spinner whose claim

to fame is that she was best buddies with Laniet Bain, despite the spinner's own sister saying that was a lie and it was actually she, the sister, that had been friends with Laniet. Who would you believe, a spinner who wrote a 'confession' so full of inconsistencies and mixed language of both a child and an experienced adult that the 'confession' read like something written by a psychologist evoking language and practice of the 90s? Who would you believe, somebody who put on a 'grave side' show as a memorial for the Bains but nobody turned up except the spinner and a photographer who fell asleep waiting for the crowd that never arrived?

Would you believe the person that wrote this....

cybernana wrote:
Right....well, we will find out more today, won't we? I must admit, I am looking forward to hearing more on nos's blog later. Either they were banned from here, and you told a lie, or they had their posts removed voluntarily knowing there was evidence against them contained in their posts. Either way, they are gone. Hahaha.
Wrong on both counts. Have you not heard of TEMPORARY SUSPENSION while things are being sorted? And remember, he who laughs, or she, laughs last.
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sweet_ad (185 ) 11:14 am, Mon 21 Mar #31710

Or would you believe a spokesperson for TM who said the dreadful 3 of today (and therefore utimately the dreaded others named in the defamation case) were on their own.

I recall writing about this earlier when the hate-siters were going on about 'freedom of speech' and TM sticking up for the hate-siters rights. Well, I'm telling you to suck kumara like you were told over a year ago, so who would believe? Looks like some motor mouth defamers might be getting a call - but don't believe me.

ah, the hate-sites stir. Signs of distress, desperation

that they and their message is not understood.

An example...

In memory of Supersleuth:
Whose bloody fingerprints were found on the rifle? Not Robin's. Whose socks had blood on them? Not Robin's. Whose clothing had Stephen's blood on it? Not Robin's. Who had been wearing the broken glasses? Not Robin. Who had great memory lapses? Not Robin. Who stood to gain financially from the deaths? Not Robin.
Who does the forensic evidence point to? Not Robin.
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jmhb51 (1 ) 2:59 pm, Sun 20 Mar #31597

All these years and still trying to lie to find a way out and protect the old man.
Of course there was over a 93% chance that Robin's prints would not be on the rifle.
David's prints on his OWN rifle were in a carrying position and not in blood as this liar above well knows.
David had a minor spot of aged blood on his clothes, yet the blood from Stephen was sprayed extensively throughout the room, sprayed.
The broken glasses; there was no evidence they were worn by anybody on the morning of the killings, there was no blood on them despite the one lens being 'found' in Stephen's room where there was blood spray even on the walls.
Memory lapses as this hate-siter puts it, are not evidence of murder, however there was medical evidence which offered an explanation as to the effects of malaria. Of course we don't know if Robin also had memory lapses, but we do know he was angry, unkempt, alienated from his family and a huntsman experienced in blood sports.
Who stood to gain from the financially from the deaths? Well to this point only the extended family.
Who did the forensic evidence point to? Well, only Robin right down to his brain matter being found inside the rifle barrel, the rising trajectory shot, the un-excluded blood spray across the floor of the lounge and reaching the curtains, the simple suicide technique, the blood spray across his shoe occluded from being from his own wound - insurmountable proof unpalatable to the liars and twisters of the truth as this person above.

A message for Ralph Taylor, Black and others the clock is ticking down on the count when your lies, and deliberate spreading of rumour to incite hatred and contempt for the Justice system, persecution and stalking of others is over in cyberspace. Try taking your hate-message elsewhere and see how you go, and note you are being taken to account.

But I'd only be joking wouldn't I? Like I was about the blood in the rifle and the absence of injuries to David as determined by his strip search that day by the Police surgeon. Justice prevailed despite the efforts of your hate-sites and now your hate-sites are being looked at, I bet you can't wait.

For those that are interested....

2nd call over tomorrow of a few named hate-siters and stalkers, one of whom (it must be said the most verbose) is letting the cat out of the bag nicely, giving the Court a good old lecture and thinks he's advising the Court on the 'incorrect' verdict in the Bain case when in fact the Bain case is not the issue. It might be a case of 'straitjacket fits' for him soon. Interesting to note the continuation of the 'I believe therefore I am right' impetus which has always worked badly because belief must be held on good reason and logic and not for convenience. It works badly now as well, but the stakes are higher and the networking of the stalkers of which I've been aware of for 2 years is emerging as a more complete picture. Each inch gained is precious to keep the integrity of the Justice system complete, and soon the measure may not be in inches or centimetres but rather in yards and metres. But for me, to bring into the light and visibility those that dared come near by family.

I bow to thee Japan

I've watched, as the wary watched.
Thinking of my father and friend Ian,
of the children too
bright once, before our hands
shook across the fault line that
breaks my heart and yours.
The rising plume Ian saw a half century ago
and could never forget upon the then sea
or his life long since after.
Of Featherston
The footsteps of peace into hilly volcanic lands.
I watch and feel ashamed
of my restraint
The holding back
while your heart breaks as mine must do
along the fault line
that says I am not you and you are not me
until I raise by head that bows to you Japan.

A 'victory' announced in Christchurch by the Demolition Association.

How best to describe a good come-uppance?

Call it a victory. That's what Diana Stil, President of the Demolition and Asbestos Association has decided to do.

She announces 'We have Won!!! because finally the management of the demolition and rebuilding of Christchurch has now been placed in the hands of the big guns - Fletchers, Mainzeal, Hawkins, Fulton Hogan etc have now joined forces to take over the management and have finally given high priority to health, safety and the environment.'

Aah, sorry Diana - the Government remains in change and if they have delegated specific tasks, those responsible for those tasks remain answerable to the Government and the State of Emergency that still applies. And in those delegations you're not the bright light you considered yourself to be setting up shop to get work for your own company.

I note Diana grimly hanging onto her health and safety cap that got her in some much trouble for trying to interfere with the efforts of Urban Search and Rescue. Surely she must realise the efforts in Christchurch are not some battle between contractors and Environment Canterbury that should be 'Won' to use her words. It is a combined effort with many different agencies playing a role which she unfortunately misinterpreted as an opportunity for her own Demolition Company.

It's either naivety or a thick hide to claim a victory after being told to butt out because you were hampering USAR, and pure naivety or duplicity to consider that the Christchurch authorities were unable to connect Diana's duel role as President and owner of one of the contracting firms looking for work. Diana has probably displayed why outsiders should keep under the radar when visiting other territories and not bring petulance and arrogance to display against 'lesser' locals.

Anyway, I can agree there has been a victory of sorts - getting systems in place and people to work in a uniformed and constructive way for the benefit of Christchurch rather than the benefit of some fellow Aucklander's egos.

More from the Demo Wars in Christchurch....

Following on from the blog below, one of the managers from Environment Canterbury actually served an eviction notice on Diana Stil, President of the Demolition and Asbestos Association from a 'control' centre inside the cordon where Diana was assisting with mobilising plant and machinery required by Urban Search and Rescue teams. The manager said that Diana, and therefore the association, were inhibiting the rescue effort. All of which appears over the top until a clue emerges 'We also insisted and implemented asbestos control measures after one of our members correctly identified friable asbestos on the Pine Gould Building' to as how the Demo Assoc was 'purposely delaying the body recovery and that we had NO SYSTEMS FOR HEALTH AND SAFETY WHATSOEVER' ( the emphasis, Diana's - the writer.)

First of all I'm not sure how an 'eviction' notice would apply and can only take it as a given because that is how it was reported, perhaps it applies to some law under a 'state of emergency' or a Council law or power instilled upon Environment Canterbury. But Diana's own words 'also insisted' as reported above gives some weight to the view of Environment Canterbury officials that the rescue was being delayed because of 'asbestos control measures.' Friable asbestos is material with at least 1% asbestos which is dry and able to be reduce to dust and therefore presents as a danger to human inhalation. Of course when handling such material a normal procedure is to wet it down and use particular breathing apparatus filters for those in contact with it.

Christchurch and that time wasn't 'normal procedure' mode. However no doubt rescuers were properly attired and with approved breathing apparatus because of the dust and any other contaminants. Now when somebody says 'one of our members' it actual broadens the picture from the 'logistic assistance' that the President claimed, into an operational situation. Further the words 'also insisted' show a root cause of the real issues that caused the crisis of control which sent the President packing. One can't be involved in organising logistics and elevate that to a role of 'insisting' on procedural compliance's, not in general situations and certainly not in life and death situations under declared states of emergency.

I can't help but think now that Diana, whom I still assume introduced herself into the cordon, misinterpreted her accepted offer of help on a narrow basis as merely a step toward a leading role in the recovery (and later along with her own demo company, Nikau) and the wheels came off when experienced USAR team members rejected normal protocol safety measures (which can be quite over the top) and wanted to get on with the job using their own experience and common sense. And also that it is more likely that while the Auckland Demo contractor and the one from Christchurch attending the 'remove yourself scene' with the Environment Canterbury manager, certainly had an eye on work in the future but that Environment Canterbury were acting to remove an obstructing force and bring on board contractors unconfused as to their roles as being no more that demo company owners and not demo company owners-President of Associations.

Arlie Smith,

they let him go, to wish a light from a bulb or switch.
One to keep him going
and put the lights on when the ground is shaking,
like that other thing, counting and touching his knee,
remembering,
a thing of light bulbs and switches
but not for fun
unless you were laughing
laughing at what
the light bulb and touching
where the wires join up

Sir Ed out in the cold.....

First this from today's news....



'Saxmere's case has been rejected by the High Court and Court of Appeal.
In its decision released today the Supreme Court said any challenges to those decisions had no grounds to proceed.
"We are not persuaded that there is any good reason in the public interest for hearing the appeal," the Supreme Court justices said.
The case led to the resignation last year of Supreme Court Justice Bill Wilson, after he failed, while sitting on the Court of Appeal which was considering the case, to step down or make full disclosure of his business and financial relationship with the Wool Board's lawyer Alan Galbraith.
In a statement this afternoon, the Wool Board called today's decision "the end of a long and tortuous road".
Wool Board Disestablishment Company Limited (DisCo) chairman Bruce Munro said the board always believed it had acted lawfully.
Mr Munro said it had been very frustrating that the case had been extended through accusations of apparent bias of Justice Wilson.
"The judgment confirms there was no real bias. The facts of the case were against Saxmere from the outset," he said.'



For those that remember this, Sir Edmond Cooke 'broke' the story last year about Justice Bill Wilson being 'beholden' to counsel representing the Woolboard in the above case, Alan Galbraith. Some information had been passed to Sir Ed more for advice, so a conversation in passing, a confidence, that he broke by writing to The Judicial Conduct Commissioner and announcing it to the press before the matter had been considered. The Commissioner, no doubt aware of the publicity already created by Sir Ed's public preening and paw licking, sent the matter for an unprecedented panel investigation into what Bill Wilson should have revealed, Bill Wilson sought a Judicial Review of The Commissioner's decision and won in that it was 'sent' back to the Commissioner to be reconsidered.

Not long after Judith Collins commented on a severance package for Bill Wilson who had announced (after negotiations with the Crown) his resignation. Judith Collins revealed that Bill Wilson had asked for a higher amount casting him in a bad light and breaking what I would assume would be a normal protocol to not make details of the negotiations public. Around Xmas Sir Ed The Brave was in the running for NZer of the year or some similar recognition and in an interview rather grandly congratulated himself on the 'dispatching' of Bill Wilson forgetting to mention that the Commissioner decision was upended, effectively along with Sir Ed's complaint.

Sir Ed had at the outset applied his opinion of how Bill Wilson was beholding without knowing the facts, and heightened details of a financial arrangement/partnership that to his mind showed reason why Bill Wilson was beholding to Counsel, and got himself in a state of excitement about it, a frenzy even. Ultimately his interpretation (unfortunately and unwisely made public in Ed's excitement) was rejected and common sense prevailed.

And today Sir Ed is shoved further out into the cold by the Supreme Court who fortunately took the opportunity to say 'there was no real bias.' I assume Bill Wilson will get some satisfaction from that but in reality his career, his right to due process was diminished, negated by a white Knight riding his horse backwards and wondering where the horse's head was and why it was going the wrong way.

Some particular names were called in Court

today, those of some vociferous motor mouths but they were no where to be seen. Not even able to front in a number of three, the once proud squadron of hate. Crawled back no doubt beneath a rock, stalkers all -grown quiet, fiddling in darkness, bold no more, when called to task for feasting on the lives of others. But they'll be called again, brought to account for the stalking done, others as well. You bet ya.

Some fellow Aucklanders bite the dust...

Not quite clear yet, but it seems the anticipated crunch has hit as some Aucklanders involved in 'organising' and assisting in logistics in Christchurch. Just as it would be hard to deny that panel beaters and towies know that following unexpected rain there are often car crashes that result in work. So too would Fletchers quickly register after the February 22nd quake that there would be more work for them in Christchurch. A number of Auckland demolition companies headed south soon after the quake and also the President on The Demolition Association.


The President, Diana Stil, is also involved with Nikau Contractors in Auckland who proclaim a nationwide service. Quiet early on Diana (perhaps after volunteering and announcing her Presidency) was seconded into helping Urban Search and Rescue, primarily sourcing specialist equipment that USAR required. She brought in help and was thanked by USAR for the job she and the others were doing voluntarily. It would be fair to say that contractors probably throughout the country were hoping for work and it seems not just a few went to the city expecting work. Complicating Diana's role of course, and despite her best intentions, was the impression that she was wearing 2 hats however noble her intentions were.


And so the big bad wolf arrived - a leader of Environment Canterbury, along with a local demolition company owner, and surprise, surprise, an Auckland competitor of the Company Diana is involved with. Environment Canterbury were unimpressed by the efforts of the NZDemolitionAssociation President, and so too the other two demolition company owners who had probably spent no little time working their way into the centre of the scene. Not quite gunfight at the OK Corral but a passable version.


The pity is that it is hard to distinguish a double role such as Diana attempted and it probably made her easy prey for the suggestion that she was intent on feathering her nest, the irony is, that even if she had an eye on finding work for her company, then no doubt the other 2 company owners had the same intention for their businesses - but not the complicating 2 hats role that was so obvious with Diana. I guess it is the nature of business, and additionally it's the nature of partisanship that the locals don't like the hotshots coming in from other cities and making public comment that doesn't pay regard to the local businesses and contractors.


To this point only one side of the story has emerged, Dianas, and it would be fair to say she has peppered her account with some feeling of being unappreciated. Whatever the case, I hope eventually that contractors in general will be able to be organised by an impartial body, such as tendering system and so forth, or preferred users lists by rotation because there's a lot of work to be done and faults such as false starts on who is in control waste time and cause bad feeling.

All said and done, if there were twenty tonne machines outside the cordon and a little more expansive thought for the problems faced in the suburbs and elsewhere, some of those diggers could have (or could be now) dug pits for plastic water tanks to be installed as holding tanks for sewerage, set up with temporary plumbing and water supplies to provide banks of flush toilets here and there about the city where needed. The tanks could be pumped out by suction vacuum trucks as they filled allowing a major problem to be temporarily bridged in a fairly inexpensive way while the more important protagonists fought the demo wars inside the cordon.

Christchurch don't grow cold.

Don't see the punished boy,
who stole light fittings and switches
in the night, where you are frightened
that thieves do take.

Don't punish the boy who looks for light,
to understand and hold what might make
him whole in the quake his life has
never stopped.

The boy in disaster of a
broken mind that a switch might connect
and give him rest, from searching
for the place his tremor stops.

See if you can sense his spirit trapped
behind a blackened eye and vacant look,
bring him to carry the water buckets
and shovel the silt, and excitedly talk with you while
eating sausages on bread with too much sauce for one.

Soon he could be like you,
his light found in your love.
To stand with you and rebuild the town struck down,
the Christchurch town,
don't grow cold.

Judging the hate-sites.

The hate-sites, Justice For Robin Bain, Counterspin, Guiltyfreeforums were always going to be judged by the conduct and behaviour of their membership. Normally, a bona-fide cyber site would be judged according to it's performance as a social site, it's ability to inform the public, gather support for a cause, it's completion of acts in the interest of the public or sections of the public, it's entertainment or educational value and so forth.

But how is a hate-site judged? By the measure of hate achieved? Well, in respect of those mentioned above they are assessed by the sum total achievements of the members and individual achievements. These sites sought 'Justice' for the dead Robin Bain and they went about it by attacking all the institutions of a civilised society, the Justice system, the Jury, individual witnesses, key figures and finally anyone defiant enough to stand in their way. Before doing that, it is timely to look at the hate-site claims and subsequent achievements.

Kent Parker of founder of 2 sites promised a 20,000 strong petition and reached less than 2,000 included in which were dubious signatures and repeated signatures by those such as Lindsay Kennard signing under different variations of his name. Kent Parker promised law changes and made claims that a political party would rise from the analysis of the evidence in the Bain trails. Of course Kent Parker now faces more pressing problems and has fallen to silence, while the hate-sites have gone underground.

Kent Parker was going to achieve in his objectives in an open way. Unfortunately that 'open' way was his way or the highway. His sites cited evidence which didn't exist and carefully vetted out evidence proving Robin Bain as the killer of his own family, he promoted jury stalking by Mike Stockdale and others. Of course this stalking soon became 'acceptable' because no one said 'hold on this isn't right.' No one knew when to apply the brakes and fit within the restraints and conformity to law of a modern society. Suddenly people like Ralph Taylor and Trevor Fox were elevated to almost 'star' like status in cyberspace driven along by being 'right' and having an apparent 'authority' to punish and expose disbelievers. There was no restraint shown, no sobering from blood lust as Trade Me provided a perfect vehicle to allow stalking and harassment on its boards.

Odd allies such as Glenda OBrien and Annette Curran veteran stalkers and hate-messengers were embraced into the fold which for a time (for the poor minded) must have been seen as a crusade of sorts where any potential enemy could be dealt to by the righteous. Of course it is now clear that the righteous were misinformed bigots and idiots who left behind them a trial a mile wide, through a litter of stalking and threats.

The most interesting thing is the question of how far these people allowed themselves to descend into criminality, how far they believed their 'entitlements' allowed them to break the law without realising their false goals were already lost and what they were doing was not finding Justice but destroying it. How anyone could imagine that lying about evidence or hiding it was a pursuit of Justice is indicative of a sick mind. Finding or understanding the truth is not qualified by what is hidden or lied about along the way. Truth is unconditional, itself to be recognised not to be sold or peddled by witchdoctors who have hidden bones in an effort to subdue spirits or hide reality.

Here follows something recently written by Christine Williams, member of all three hate-sites and showing a clear picture of the integrity, honesty and motivation of herself and her sick-minded fellows.....

[QUOTE=MILLIE234;64296]Listen to me very carefully McDonald. You are right, I am a normal ordinary Paheha who has no criminal record and has actually no interest in you personally. As a community we have to live with people like you and I accept that. You threaten me constantly but you do not know who I am or who my connections are. Although I have never been in prison my daughter's father's family have been. They are waiting for you McDonald. You threaten me or my daughter just one more time and I will let them loose. Understand me? Heard of the mob? You can run but you can"t hide. Stop your crap McDonald for the sake of your own family. They just want to protect their own. This is not a threat. It's a promise.[/QUOTE]

And another repeat of something from Kent Parker, displaying his inner motivation, hate and anger against someone who didn't agree with him.

Submitted by Kent Parker on Mon, 23/08/2010 - 7:12pm. Psst, Rossco, you are lucky your head wasn't bitten off completely, utterly and mercilessly...

Perhaps, most of all Christine William's death threat and the similar threat by Kent Parker sum up best of all the judgement of the hate-sites and what little they achieved apart from their own vilification and official scrutiny - and thus allows a resounding if unwelcome pass mark, the sites spread hate, threatened the fabric of society to be overcome by zealots and dangerous lunatics. Long may they be silent and good speed to bringing them to Justice.

For the watchers of subtle signs...

you may have noticed the behaviour of the hate-siters is restrained to some degree, but true to form Kalnovitch, Williams and Cameron have imploded - delivering more evidence at a very appropriate time and in a very appropriate way. I guess proving, that for them, stalking is disease. A diseased act by diseased minds, no wonder the hate-sites are closing up shop.