A Trail Back to Kent Parker,Defamation 'hidden' as free speech.

First this on Counterspin:

Joe Karam verses Michael Laws Radio Live debate. Is Joe Karam telling the truth? You be the judge.
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Submitted by Bob on Mon, 30/08/2010 - 7:52pm
Karams version of what constable Andrews said at court, from radio live.

Karam [Quote] David Bain did faint, when he fainted he crashed down between, and banged his head, the officer Andrews who was with David when David fainted and crashed down behind the bed saw David crash down behind the bed and it was the constable Andrews who gave this evidence about him crashing down and banging his head on the wall by the window sill in his bedroom on the right side of his face, now that’s the evidence in the trial. [End Quote] Click on the attachment further down the page to listen to this excerpt.

Evidence given at court in 2009 by Constable Leslie Andrew

From: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2257185/Crown-alleges-David-Bain-faked-a-fit

Leslie Andrew, a police constable who was one of the first three officers to enter the house after the 111 call from Bain, said he stayed with Bain as the two other officers checked the house.

He watched Bain from the doorway of his bedroom and when a dog barked from down the hall, Bain called: "Here Casey, Casey, Casey." When the other officers shouted that they had found five bodies, he saw Bain shaking for about 10 seconds and then falling backwards.

He noticed Bain's eyes were normal before he fell back, which he thought was "a bit strange".

"If he was having a fit his eyes would react as well," Andrew said.

He had seen people have fits before and had noticed their eyes would flicker and the whites of the eyes become prominent.

Andrew said he had pulled Bain out from the tight spot where he had fallen and placed him in a recovery position.

Bain, who looked straight at him as he pulled him out, did not hit his head or any part of his body and was limp.




From: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2254954/Crown-questions-Bain-fit

Earlier, the police officer who saw David Bain have the fit that morning, Constable Leslie Andrew, said the episode seemed "strange''.

Andrew said Bain was sitting on his bedroom floor and then began shaking for 10 to 12 seconds before he fell backwards in a fit the Crown says was fake.

Andrew had observed other people have fits and their eyes normally changed and the whites became prominent before an attack.

Bain's eyes did not change before the fit and his episode seemed "strange'', he said.

Bain did not strike his head in the fit and when he went to assist David his eyes were open and he was "looking straight at me'', he said.

Andrew dragged a limp Bain into the recovery position and an ambulance officer was called.

As you can see Joe Karams version of what was said, completely contradicts what Constable Leslie Andrew actually said in his evidence given at the Bain trial in 2009 as reported by both Martin Van Beynen and Ian Steward.

*****
The above, somewhat edited to prevent it's recognition as being from a hate-site, was posted on Trade Me by a 'new' poster with zero trades 'sophie8.' What is very clear is that it's intention was to provide proof that Joe Karam was a liar, in fact to defame him. All the usual hate-sites suspects (Stockdale, jeeves, Racheal from Otorahanga, kookybelle etc) lauded these 'fresh' revelations as proof that Joe Karam was indeed a liar. Later we saw material posted on TM which was from the actual evidence.

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Relying on newspaper reports is not wise, because they rarely reported the cross examination of the witnesses to any great extent. Andrew admitted in cross examination that David went into shock and fell to the floor with the right side of his body including his head against the wall between the wall and the bed. This was a very confined space barely enough for a body to fit in, meaning that he had to make contact with the wall and the floor in the process. (page 339 to 346 of the trial transcript) The photo reference for the jury was photo B2.

Also, Andrew agreed he could only see David’s legs after the fall, because his body and head were hidden by the bed. *He could not see whether his head had hit the wall* when he fell backwards to the floor. He also agreed that he dragged him out of that space holding on to his left arm and leg meaning the right side of his torso and head were on the floor, creating a further possibility for the right side of his head to be bumped and bruised. While being dragged out, his head and body had to pass a hard suitcase and a wooden dresser only 200-300 ml from the corner of the bed. So it’s very obvious – and was obvious to the jury – that there was plenty of opportunity for this bruising to have been caused this way. It would be more remarkable if he showed no signs of this!

Edited by ro42 at 11:52 am, Wed 1 Sep

Quotero42 (133 ) 11:49 am, Wed 1 Sep #23709

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All the following material comes from Counterspin. You'll note not one word of caution about 'Bob's' revelation. In fact it's backed up in various ways, going to be sent on to Michael Laws, rather 'believe' Journalists etc. So before it is carefully confirmed, it is hot news, a breakthrough of some sort that, like all else from the hate-sites, proves to be a fizzer.

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Submitted by Kent Parker on Tue, 31/08/2010 - 7:54pm.
Well we have two journalists
Well we have two journalists (albeit from the same paper) stating emphatically that Andrews said that DB didn't hit his head and JK equally emphatically stating that Andews did say that DB hit his head. I personally would be inclined to go with what the journos say. Looks like JK missed again. Typical! As Rhys Darby would say.

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Submitted by Vic Pur on Tue, 31/08/2010 - 8:24pm.
They were reporting what was
They were reporting what was said where as jk was stating what he wanted said.

Perhaps we should release a pamphlet like jk did only call it The Guilty Pamphlet.



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Submitted by Bob on Tue, 31/08/2010 - 9:15pm. New
Joe Karam said to Laws in the
Joe Karam said to Laws in the debate "I hope its not about winning for you Michael" I would suggest that it is all about winning for Karam' and at any cost, especially the truth, he would have known full well exactly what the Constable said, but totally ignored it in an effort to win, which just shows you the mentality of the man, of course he did not win, I think of the thousands who voted at the end of the debate 84% thought David was the killer, Joe and Dave's credibility I believe has never been at such a low ebb.

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Submitted by Kent Parker on Tue, 31/08/2010 - 9:25pm. New
I'm thinking of doing a blog
I'm thinking of doing a blog post where I summarize all the errors we have found that JK made in the debate and then send Michael Laws a link to it.

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Submitted by Bob on Tue, 31/08/2010 - 9:41pm. New
Have sent Laws the bit about
Have sent Laws the bit about what Andrews said already Kent

*******
All of the forgoing is a big problem for Counterspin, Kent Parker, and the sacrificial lambs that spread the message elsewhere. I've earlier talked about Kent's hate-site leaking and that Kent's hate-site is still responsible for any defamatory material that finds itself into mainstream cybermedia, and that equally the republishers of such material are equally responsible.

Looking at the minions who take the defamation to TM and hide behind their pseudonyms, if taken to account they would claim, they believed it to be true. But a reasonable person doesn't take reference to material from a hate-site that sole purpose is to harass and stalk other people and which is already facing many hundreds of charges of defamation.

Disclaimer:

I have recorded the above defamatory hate-site material knowing that it is false, intended to be defamatory and bring Joe Karam, in particular, into disrepute. My intention in placing the material here is to provide a general reader the opportunity to be acquainted with another of the mechanism's by which the hate-sites distribute their vitriol and lies. I have done this in order to show that no reasonable person would join a hate-site such as Counterspin, Justice(sic) For Robin Bain, or guiltyfreeforums. Or that if an reasonable person did join they would soon realise what shattered world they had entered and leave it for the devils which inhabit it. Also to show what an absolute joke Kent Parker is with his 'Petition' and airs of importance. The man is a dangerous fraud, a cultist and hate-siter and so are his few members who remain.