Cox, initial statement to the police: The message on the
computer read "Sorry you are the only one who deserves to stay”.
Cox, evidence in chief first trial: It showed a message
on the screen of the computer. That read: SORRY, YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO
DESERVED TO STAY.
Kevin
Wayne Anderson, Evidence in chief, first trial: I then entered the
alcove itself, I looked through the gap in the curtains and I could see a
message that was recorded on the computer and it was displayed on the screen.
The message read: SORRY, YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO DESERVED TO STAY.
Milton
Weir, evidence in chief, first trial: During the examination of Robin
Bain, as to the alcove shown in room A on the southern side, the pathologist Mr
Dempster actually looked into the alcove first; as a result of what he said I
looked in there and noticed a message on the computer. I have recorded in my
notebook SORRY, YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO DESERVED TO STAY.
Dempster, evidence in chief, first trial: I recollect the message
on the screen. That ws the message "sorry you are the only who deserves to
stay”
We can see from above that Cox gives two versions, the initial one using the word 'deserves' and the second after he was prevailed upon or 'corrected?' it becomes 'deserved.'
The old partnership Weir and Anderson unanimous on the word 'deserved' throughout. Of course Weir admitted misleading the first Jury and Anderson gave evidence in the second trial, but not the first, that David had asked for 'his' glasses to be passed to him on the morning of the tragedy. So 15 years for that to come out, right smack on cue when the Crown were most desperate to tie Margaret Bain's old glasses to the killings. This despite there being no evidence that they were used in anyway that morning, in fact when they were said to be mysteriously found by Weir, after hours, in a room that had already been thoroughly searched by officers assigned to the job - they were dust covered. Interestingly enough the Crown contended the glasses had been used by David on a killing spree and were broken when Steven 'fought back.' The Crown said that the glasses corresponded to 'injuries' found on David's face which only became visible after he had collapsed beside his bed and the wall later in the morning, except that the 'injuries' were to the opposite side of David's face than that from which the lens had been dislodged.
Anderson told the second Jury he had never raised the evidence before (David asking for 'his' glasses) because he didn't want to be 'criticised' for moving evidence that morning when he was assigned to 'watch' David. So he clearly omitted the 'fact,' and his duty, according to his own account, despite that it could be argued that it was critical to the Crown's case and only emerged at time when the Crown case was in terminal collapse. But the glasses 'controversy' doesn't finished there because Weir had been told the true ownership of the glasses before the first trial. 'Some how' that evidence got buried and the result was damaging to David's credibility because he was in conflict with the entered 'by consent' evidence of Sanderson whose first unaltered statement was that they were David's glasses. Later he was to discover that he was mistaken and that the glasses were in fact an on old pair of Margaret's. He told Weir of this and naively anticipated that his evidence would be altered as Weir confirmed. Clearly, Sanderson didn't know then 'evidence' couldn't be simply altered he had to re-sworn. Sanderson would have had no reason not to believe Weir on that day, but I'm fairly positive he would never take his word again at anything more than face value.
Some readers will know that the 'evidence' of the ownership of the glasses was among the considerations of the Privy Council when they determined that David's first trial was an Actual Miscarriage Of Justice. So when Anderson 'admitted' handling the glasses on the morning of the killings but keeping quiet about it for over a decade it continued on as being one of the more controversial issues of the handling and gathering of evidence in the Bain case. So much so that I can't believe the evidence of Anderson about handing the glasses to David, not just because of the length of time it took him to 'admit' what he claimed happened, not only because of the mystery finding of the lens in Steven's room after hours, and by an officer not tasked with the job, but because, most firmly at the very least, that the glasses were broken and had no lens at all in them. So to take Anderson seriously David was not only asking for and claiming ownership of glasses but he was asking for a pair that had no lens at all in them and could have only been a prop in a Marx Brother's movie and not in a Crown case for murder.
Lastly above, we have the account of Dr Dempster. He was the Crown Pathologist that urged the Crown before the retrial to consider if they should go ahead, by then he was familiar with the PC Judgement and also had experience of a body gurgling after death. Of course he appeared to be on the outer after that, with the Crown even finding other pathologists to contradict Dempster's evidence as to the close/contact shot in a bizarre exhibition of demonstrating the savaging of their own case. Some will know that those two pathologists put pressure on Dempster to 'review' his evidence. So for my money when Dempster says the word was 'deserves' I'd go for it. As for Weir and Anderson, partners in opportunistic silence, from which part of a MOJ is formed, thumbs down to their 'recollections.'
Just more to digest for those that don't think that there wasn't and isn't a concerted effort to continue to persecute David Bain, lies at every turn - even now, and joined in by a Minister of Justice.
Unbelievable isn't it? Personally I'd back what Cox originally wrote, and like you, Dempster's version. No surprises that the JFRB group like to promote the opposite. However, regardless of which word was right, it is another demonstration of how shocking the investigation was. Nothing recorded properly by the police, no consensus on exactly how the scene was and so on, so to get their conviction, they lie.
ReplyDeleteOne would think that this being such important evidence they would either have printed out the message as it was written, or at least photographed it on the screen. Perhaps they did both?
ReplyDeleteI hope they did. I'm not aware of any photos, but perhaps somebody is.
DeleteThe whole affair is not a good look for our police force is it. For three hours the cops ransacked that house for evidence linking themselves to underage sex, manipulated the scene to give the impression it was David Bain who was the killer, fabricated evidence to give the impression that it was David Bain who was the killer, forgot and then remembered things for the last thirteen or so years to bolster their corrupt and obscenely deliberate attempt to deliberately pervert the course of justice and now in a pathetic attempt to deny David Bain what he is entitled to enlist the services of a "PORN SURFING JUDGE" a 'MINISTER OF NO QUALIFICATIONS' (a tax lawyer for god sake and the wife of a cop who was a serving cop at the time of the murders) and a "MENTAL PATIENT" (slater) to deflect attention away from the real issue. Those first three hours turned the case into a circus and reduced this country to the laughing stock of the world.
ReplyDeleteWas the initial investigation thorough, professional and according to standard practice? The answer is clearly 'NO' regardless of what the cops and PCA are trying to tell us.
ReplyDeleteIn the process of crossing 'I's' and dotting 'T's' human error slipped in. How on earth did these so-called highly trained and professional people mistake an 'S' for a 'D' if they had seen the screen themselves. There is only one explanation for this mistake and it is that each individual forgot what they were told to say re the message on the screen.
Cox, initial statement to the police: The message on the computer read "Sorry you are the only one who deserves to stay”.
Cox, evidence in chief first trial: It showed a message on the screen of the computer. That read: SORRY, YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO DESERVED TO STAY.
Kevin Wayne Anderson, Evidence in chief, first trial: I then entered the alcove itself, I looked through the gap in the curtains and I could see a message that was recorded on the computer and it was displayed on the screen. The message read: SORRY, YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO DESERVED TO STAY.
Milton Weir, evidence in chief, first trial: During the examination of Robin Bain, as to the alcove shown in room A on the southern side, the pathologist Mr Dempster actually looked into the alcove first; as a result of what he said I looked in there and noticed a message on the computer. I have recorded in my notebook SORRY, YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO DESERVED TO STAY.
Dempster, evidence in chief, first trial: I recollect the message on the screen. That ws the message "sorry you are the only who deserves to stay”
They want us to believe they are highly trained and professional but in light of what you have pointed out Nos it is quite clear they were nothing more or less than buffoons blundering their way around a crime scene attempting to give an impression not onlt that they were highly trained but that David Bain was the killer.
there are two things that disturb me about our police force and the first is 'if we didn't have a police force many of the idiots would not have a job' and 'it is fortunate for police and the justice system as a whole that there is a never ending supply of offenders born into poverty and who once caught up in the system like family members before them provide the cops with a client base'. Without that client base many of the idiots who join police would be otherwise unemployed.
David Bain is a huge assert to the justice system he has helped the corrupt wheels to keep turning and parasites in a job.
And the list of parasites now includes Judith Collins.
Actually I think the police are doing well, particularly with youth crime from which society will continue to reap the rewards. As much as the Bain case is an injustice for David and his family, it's also an injustice to the police not involved in the case and a reflection on poor management of controversial matters and being unable to take it on the chin and move on having learnt from the experience. It starts at the top, not with the men and women out all hours doing their jobs in tough conditions.
DeleteExcellent analysis Nos
ReplyDeleteI like you read little into the sense of the suicide note but am fully aware of the twisted sisters claim that it proves that "it can't have been written by Robin"
I think you are confusing Andersons evidence about the glasses with Terry Van Turnhouts as he was the cop who handled the glasses, a minor detail. I would also back the first version by Cox and Dempster as Weirs evidence is suspicious in many areas.
Deceit is throughout this case unfortunately, its what helped keep David inside for 13 years. Hopefully it will get sorted eventually
Thanks Rowan. Correction on that: Van Turnhouts handled the glasses and not Anderson.
DeleteWake up Collins you fool.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8331111/After-18-years-David-Bain-case-still-divides
Six out of 10 Kiwis believe the Government should compensate David Bain for the 13 years he spent in jail - but fewer are sure about his innocence.
A Fairfax Media-Ipsos political poll shows most voters are firmly in Camp Bain, with 60 per cent agreeing he deserves a payout for wrongful conviction over the murder of five members of his family".
This idiot should never have jumped into bed with a small group of haters because they are, it seems to me, making her look sillier than what she already is.
I bet you a penny to a pound of goat s$#t she is on the same meds as cameron slater.
Nos
ReplyDeleteInteresting to compare this to some of the other 'changed' evidence. Case in point Alex Dempsters original pathology notes after viewing Robins corpse and his conclusion. He was totally of the opinion that it was suicide. Note how this evidence was 'changed' to unlikely a year later, to be fair to Dempster I'd say the likes of Ngamokis incorrect measurement and the stupid suggestion that he may have used the spare magazine to reach the trigger probably had a significant influence on this. Interesting at the retrial his evidence was damaging enough that the crown needed to bring in other 'experts' to discredit him. Talk about desperation!
Nos
ReplyDeleteA general evidence question which you can hopefully clarify for me. I have looked on your blog about some of the older posts about the blood on Robins shoe. You seem to be saying that it wasn't his and must have come from shootiung someone else. Joe seemed to be saying in Trial by Ambush and the Laws debate that it was and had been DNA tested and used this and Dr Manloves evidence to show that Robin was definitely not 'kneeling in prayer' on the crowns favourite scenario. Will check what Manloves evidence said again as has been a while since I've read TBA.
That's right Rowan. At the time or was confusing the 'background' DNA which Manlove speaks about below. Joe Karam is 100% it excludes the kneeling in prayer proposed by the Crown. The evidence was overlooked for more than a decade until found by Manlove's team.
ReplyDeleteBasically, yes it was left to right and it was DNA tested and was Robin’s own blood
It’s Manlove’s evidence in chief (from retrial).
The blood on the right shoe goes from the inner side towards the outer (ie from left to right)
It WAS DNA-tested, yes; Robin’s blood. I may have been thinking about the ‘other person’s DNA, but Manlove said that was ‘background noise’ rather than anything else: (also Manlove)
A. We actually took the three spots of airborne origin to the upper front of the shoe, combined them and sent them for SGM Plus DNA profiling, yes we did and we obtained a DNA profile that, of which the majority was represented by DNA that could have originated from Robin Bain himself. There was the presence of DNA from a – another if you like, but this was in the minority.
Q. When you have DNA from another is that normal, or –
A. It's very common to have mixtures of DNA. It's a sensitive DNA profiling technique and very often we pick up more than one person from samples, although we try as we might simply to take the bloodstaining itself, very often it is very difficult not to be taking a little part of what we would call background of an item as well.
Q. From the DNA profiling that you obtained however, were you satisfied that it was the blood that you were testing?
A. It was my opinion that the majority of the DNA would have originated from that bloodstain as we were as careful as we could be to remove only the blood.
Then in response to a question from the judge, Manlove again:
the only individual from whom the DNA within that stain could have originated was Robin Bain himself
and in response to a further question about the stain on the shoe:
Q. Now can I just also cross check with you about your opinion about the stain on the shoe. You’ve told the Court that in your opinion it was blood. Did you do a specific test which is demonstrable that it is blood and if so can you tell us what that test was?
A. I did – yes, I conducted a test known as the KM or Kastle-Meyer test which involves removing a tiny part of the stain on folded – we use folded sterile filter paper. We then apply two chemicals in sequence to that stain and if the stain is blood, it gives a colour reaction to pink, it’s a test looking for a particular type of enzyme activity. If this enzyme activity exists and the stain itself has the appearance of blood, then we can call it blood.
Then in cross-examination:
Q. So, am I right in summarising that you took samples from the three spots?
A. That’s correct, yes.
Q. They were separate spots?
A. They were separate but they had similar appearance so I judged it appropriate to combine them.
Q. And you combined them in the one?
A. I combined them in the one tube. We were looking at a sample that was potentially, well, was certainly going to be over 14 years old and as you correctly said, age can affect the ability to obtain results and DNA profiles and with the available material, we felt it best to concentrate what we had as it were, to combine it all to get the best chance of getting a result.
Q. And do I understand from their position relative to each other, and their appearance, you saw no difficulty in combining them in order to carry out a subsequent process?
A. Absolutely, it was a judgement call and it was made in that fashion.
Q. Even though they actually came from 5 separate parts of the item?
A. They were very close together, they had appearance of very similar appearance, same colour and they were all of airborne origin and blood pattern analysts will commonly undertake such an approach as a judgement call to enable one to obtain a result rather than run the risk of putting in three separate samples and obtaining no results whatsoever.
Cheers Nos
ReplyDeleteThanks for clarifying this, your absolutely right the 'kneeling in prayer' and 'poking the rifle through from behind the curtains' are completely ridiculous, believing that there was anyone else present in the room when Robin died is also ridiculous, I watched the CS youtube clip trying to show 'murder', good entertainment value sums up their understanding of the evidence quite well, They are a joke!!